#infoAnarchy last cranked 2006-10-27 23:27

Australia up-in-arms about sermon by an Islamic priest
posted by DonFundoshi at 2006-10-27 09:42

DonFundoshi: its very rare to be able to translate arabic into English with precision, as far as I know .. although I don't speak it. Whatever he said is unlikely to be exactly what has been quoted in the press.
DonFundoshi: "He claimed he was quoting an ancient Islamic scholar to make a point when he made the comparison between immodest women and uncovered meat."
DonFundoshi: "Earlier this year Pope Benedict outraged Muslims by quoting a 14th-century Byzantine emperor, linking Islam to violence."
DonFundoshi: some commentary regarding the situation around the Papal speech, which the mufti has likened his situation to
DonFundoshi: as an instance of imprecise reporting, not even involving translation, "The sheik will not give sermons for the next two to three months after he said in one of his religious speeches that immodestly dressed women were inviting sexual attack, Muslim community leaders announced."
DonFundoshi: I seriously doubt that the "Muslim community leaders announced" that the sheik had "said in one of his religious speeches that immodestly dressed women were inviting sexual attack".
DonFundoshi: But because they did (I assume) announce that he would "not give sermons for the next two to three months after" this furor, that gets 'rolled in' to whatever they did say, which (I assume) was more carefully neutral regarding what he did say
DonFundoshi: evidence for my assumptions, from later in the story: "Muslim leaders decided that no action would be taken against Sheik Hilaly over what they termed a 'misinterpretation' of his comments"
DonFundoshi: on the one hand they said his comments were misrepresented, on the other they said he said that women invite sexual attack? no. the reporter put words in the spokesperson's mouth.
DonFundoshi: and this story is from our multicultural news service. imagine what the "dominant culture" press have done.
DonFundoshi:
DonFundoshi: I have no idea what he said, but our country seems to have gained an awful lot of Arabic/Islamic experts overnight .. I would be much more careful in interpreting a religious sermon, even if given in English
DonFundoshi: If I quote from Old Testament that babies should be dashed on the rocks, does it mean I literally think babies should be dashed on the rocks?
DonFundoshi: "He has probably spent more time working for women's rights than for his own family." says his daughter
DonFundoshi: "Sheik Hilali offered help to Muslim convert and model Michelle Leslie after she was released from a Bali jail for possessing drugs. He continued to offer his support to her even after she decided to return to the catwalk and model swimwear."
DonFundoshi: doesn't mean a lot when the reporter can launch a headline like Apologist worked for jihadi journal and remain virtually unchallenged.
DonFundoshi: so far I've read seven articles, and not a single one quotes more than 10 words of the mufti's talk.
DonFundoshi: mufti 'completely shaken by the controversy' 'bedridden, and he's on an oxygen machine. He's very unwell.'
DonFundoshi: "the Arabic word for meat - lahm - could also be translated as 'flesh'"
DonFundoshi: "It's out of context. He was making a speech about sex outside marriage. He was trying to discourage his flock, Islamic people, from having sex outside marriage."
DonFundoshi: "He was in a house of God. He was only preaching to a group of old men. And his only concern was for them to keep their daughters modest. It all got out of context, blown out of proportion out of something little. Move on."
DonFundoshi: "He was not inviting people to rape (women). That's the thing that was out of context," she said.
DonFundoshi: The Australian(s) obviously aren't even very good at riddles:
DonFundoshi: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat,"
DonFundoshi: the answer, in case you are not inclined to thought, is, the fault lies with the person who put the meat out. The meat, in the parable, is not to blame, it is passive. The cat is not to blame, it is an animal. The person who put the meat out, in the riddle 'you', is to blame.
DonFundoshi: his daughter says the context was a lecture to some old men, he is telling the old men that if they fail to teach their daughters -- ie children, ignorant/innocent/passive -- to stay safe, and something happens to the daughters, that the parents are culpable
DonFundoshi: it is obvious to anyone with any degree of sense, that humans are not cats, and so a rapist is not free of guilt. but that was not the point of the parable, the parable is centered around the 'you', not the 'cat'.
DonFundoshi: IMHO
DonFundoshi: at least I spent some time and did some research, so my opinion is not teh suck like everyone else's. nyer.
DonFundoshi: even if I do turn out to be wrong.
DonFundoshi: http://disclaimer.com -- think for yourself (TM)
DonFundoshi: and i bet the 'flesh' in the parable is not necessarily female flesh. men get raped too.
DonFundoshi: just ask the down-home white-boys at abu graib, or in any prison. rape is not a cultural thing, it is not a religious thing, it is not a race thing. and yet it happens. it is abhored, and yet it happens. abhoring it does not prevent it. the mufti abhors it, but that does not mean he cannot discuss it.
DonFundoshi: perhaps he meant the men should teach modesty so that the cat cannot pretend that the meat is to blame. who knows? its a lot to accuse a man of sanctioning rape, and for one, our Prime Minister should be less quick to do so. Why not simply ask the mufti to clarify? rather than first accuse him in a national newpaper?
DonFundoshi: people keep telling me to assume incompetence rather than conspiracy. So I guess I must simply assume that the entire mainstream press and political system in Australia is full of loudmouthed incompetents, and that there is no bias. Right?
DonFundoshi: if you're still reading ... my interpretation of his (translated and contextless) comment is not "guaranteed" to be correct. It is to show that a crazy parable is something too complex to translate into a single headline 'mufti says rape is good' .. and if you then take this incorrect translation to, say the PM, and ask for a comment, and the commenter is not wise to your idiocy, then you will get "confirmation" that the mufti is wr
DonFundoshi: ong.
DonFundoshi: you're not reading. you don't care. you read the 5 word headline, and you cared "so much" that you could destroy a man's life. you did not care enough to read further or to think about whether the headline could be wrong.
DonFundoshi: you influence your own destiny.
DonFundoshi: ... and that of our descendents ...

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